Artist Series: Kat Habib

An interview, a conversation, an interrogation, a manifesto. This is the Lucky Rigatoni Artist Series. I value the searching, the longing, the process. These conversations are gently edited for clarity. You can find out more about Kat and her artwork on her website.

---

Kat Habib is a ceramics artist, florist and educator whose technique focuses on hand building and sculpture. Working from her Blue Ridge Mountain home at the foot of the Shenandoah National Park, Kat draws her inspiration from nature, a background in art conservation, and the unique “personalities” of various clay bodies.

Kelsey Swintek: To start, I just wanted to ask, you know, in your own words, your website is very thorough with your bio, but would you just want to describe your background, as an artist, or how you're thinking about yourself as an artist now?

Kat Habib: Sure, I have always made art. Since I was little, little. I mean, I don't remember a time when I wasn't making something or painting or drawing. I grew up on a farm and there weren't any other kids around, so it really was up to me to amuse myself. Thankfully, my mom's response was, you know, here are markers and colored pencils and a paintbrush and just explore, and go be outside.

And then she put me in art classes is the other piece too. I think there's a lot of kids that are creatively inclined, but the parents, they may be supportive, but my mom really was the kind to take it a step beyond that, and get me enrolled into different classes and programs and then find schools for me. I went to private school for most of my education. One of the criteria for the schools that I went to was always, what was the art program?

So I don’t, it's funny, like, I am an artist, and it's not really clear to me when that word came to be assigned to my identity. It certainly wasn't when I left high school, and I very much was like, I'm not going to art school. It scared me.

We have that trope of the starving artists, and it just, it frightened me. So I went to liberal arts schools and thought I was actually going to go into art conservation, and so wanted a place that I could do art history and chemistry and get hands on experience. I actually had to stay in college longer than anticipated because I needed to do knee surgery after a bad car accident. And before Obamacare, to keep your health insurance after you turned 18, you had to be a full time student. I had a seven year undergrad experience, because I needed health insurance.

KS: Oh my god! 

KH: Right. So it's like, that's one of those things that people don't think about when they think about the Affordable Care Act. But it's really a gift to let people have health insurance without having that requirement. But I had an amazing education in my seven years. So I'm not complaining. 

I transferred a couple times trying to find the right place. At first I was in Los Angeles, and then I came back to the East Coast, and then I had a couple internships including at the National Gallery and frame conservation. I was taking amazing art courses, and was really loving the hands-on conservation piece. And it was the summer before I was gonna transfer again, I was finally ready to finish out my bachelor's degree. I had enough medical stuff lined up, when a friend of mine was just like, you are an artist and you need to go to art school.

KS: Wow.

KH: On a whim, I applied to the Corcoran College of Art and Design. That's where I finished out my undergrad degree. And it was there that I was really like, these are my people and this is what I want to be doing. And so in that time surrounded by other artists, that was when all of a sudden, I gave myself permission to be like, Okay, this is who I am. 

I am an artist, and it's like, it's not really clear to me when that word came to be assigned to my identity.

KS: Wow.

KH:  Yeah, and I took a semester abroad to study art conservation. And when I was gone, I realized I really missed my own studio practice. And when I came back, it was my final year and I was doing my thesis and I was realizing, wow, I don't miss the conservation lab.

KS: Laughs

KH: I decided I was just gonna go for it. Art conservation grad programs are impossible to get into, and there are no jobs. So it was like, well, there are no jobs. Might as well try being an artist. 

So I ended up staying on, I was given an assistant-ship there, and then stayed on for several years and became the ceramic studio manager. In that three years at the Corcoran as a student, I went in as a painter, and I'm thinking I’m doing conservation, and I came out as a sculptor working in clay. And also being very clear, like, this is what I want to do.

So you know, the direct path of four years, from point A to point B, with an undergrad degree, would not have gotten me here. I think hindsight is really helpful to be able to appreciate it. 

KS: Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of artists I know also struggle with. Like, very few people I know were like, this is what I want to do. And then they just did it. I think, because of the society we live we live in, there's this narrative of, what you were saying, like a fear. And I have to feel confident and like, defend myself to other people. It's almost easier to just, try something else until it's really like everything is nudging you in that direction. You're like, Okay, fine. I'll be myself.

KH: Yeah, well, yeah. And then I mean, the other piece of it, too, is you get to the point where you're like, Okay, this is who I am, I am an artist. But then you also have to define, how do I make a living? And what do I want to make? And then there's this other turning point that you have to decide, am I going to make work that pays my bills? Am I going to make my heart work, you know, or do I do a blend? And it's not always easy to figure that out. There are a bunch of societal hurdles and expectations and you have to figure out how what works for you. 

KS: Yeah, yeah, I think that tension, too, is very rarely talked about, From where I sit, so many people on the outside of the art world assume like, oh, you're a writer, you're an artist, like that's what you do to make money. And it's almost like, if you correct them, then they think that's less of your identity Like, ‘Oh, what do you actually do?’ is what I've heard so many times! And I'm like, Okay, well, do you want to hear about me filing medical records? Because I don't want to talk about it. And so why is that what's interesting, because that's what is coming into my bank account?

So that's definitely, definitely a tension that I struggle with personally. You know, you make things that like, are consumer objects, like, you could technically sell a mug, but would that make you happy? And if you sold a mug that you made and that made you happy, and then someone else wanted one, like, you know that it's kind of like a really murky area. I think it must be hard, I guess. Have you ever looked into having space in a shop? Or have you done that before? What's that kind of relationship like for you between your art and it's worth?

KH: Yeah, yeah. When when I left the Corcoran, I was very much like, Okay, I'm going to be a full time sculptor. My heart is with sculpture. But I work in clay, so the way to really pay the bills is to make mugs and other functional work. I had this vision of like, okay, I'm going to be in the studio, I'm going to do 40 hours a week, this is how I'm going to support myself.

And it became a job and it meant I had to make a whole lot of mugs and a whole lot of other more production work. And I didn't have nearly as much time or energy as I wanted to make the sculpture. And I started to get angry at my studio, because I was just like, I don't like making mugs. I'm happy to make 15 to 20 mugs over a couple week period, but if I'm like, I have to make a couple hundred, it just does not work for me.

So, when I was doing that, I did have work in a shop. But, you know, people started to think of me as the person that made nice coffee mugs. And it was like, Oh, this is not gonna work.

KS: Like if you wanted to miss the mug lady, that’s not what you wanted.

KH: I remember once I saw someone, like someone's husband at one of the firings that I did, and he turned to me and asked, Oh, are you the person that makes those enormous pots? And it was like, yes! That’s what I want people to know me for.

KS: Yes! Yes.

KH: Yeah. And it was just like, Oh, thank you, stranger.

KS: Laughs

KH: Yeah, so I did end up going and getting another job. I was very mindful that I was gonna go work for 15 or 20 hours a week elsewhere, so that I could protect my studio practice. And that way I could make the work I wanted to make. And it's like, if I want to make some mugs, because I needed to fill to kiln efficiently, or I had a show coming up, and it would just be helpful to know that I'm not like, losing money.

Mugs will pay to keep the lights on and keep me in clay, so there is kind of a baseline there. But that really helped me to protect my practice, and to figure out where I want to be. 

KS: That’s really cool.

KH: And it really, it shifts too. Sometimes a whole series is wildly successful, and everything sells out, and other times like you sell one and no one touches it. And so it's like, I've had people say, Oh, I sold nearly 100% of those things, those blue things. And so I'm going to make a hundred more. And I've just found, you know, it's not that consistent. I might as well make work that's interesting to me, and not worry about, ultimately, the bottom line.

That being said, one I got another job, so that helps, but two, I think it's really important to be transparent that I have support. I have a wonderful husband who has a salary and health insurance. When I've heard other artists that I really admire say that, it's been such a huge affirmation to me. Like, oh, I'm so glad no one else really has it figured out, like there's maybe 5 to 7% of artists who have figured out how to survive solely on their work. But so many other people are being given support, either by another person or by another job. I think it's really important that we talk about that.

KS: Totally. I think especially for me, being online, it almost feels like it's kind of behind closed doors. Even though everyone knows, it's almost like a shooting star, like for someone to be able to truly support a life of, you know, comfort that we know— like being able to go to the grocery store without checking your bank account, and being able to go to the hospital if you're sick. It feels like that's completely unattainable no matter how much success I can garner, if I didn't have a support system like I have now.

So we were talking about your transition from mugs—and so that kind of leads me into my next question. I'm curious where you find inspiration. It sounds like early in life, you were always outside, and I know a lot of your work has roots in nature and in place. But I'm curious how that changes what you make, or where else you find inspiration, either other artists or anything really?

KH: Nature is still very much a huge inspiration for me. I mean, I spend a large part of every day outside walking or in the garden, and just looking. I think paying attention to what is around us in each situation is probably the biggest gift of inspiration. No matter who you are, or whatever medium you're working in.

It's funny—I start a piece and I don't really know where it's gonna go. My hands lead me, or the clay leads me. I know there's some artists that sketch out exactly what they're going to make, and that's not me. I'm always surprised when a piece introduces itself to me. I mean, at some point, it's kind of like, oh, now, I see it, but there's a certain amount of time working on the sculpture that I don't know what's going to happen. And that, that's really exciting.

I also fire with other people in wood kilns, and I find them inspiring. I work with Catherine White and Warren Frederick, and their work and their way of seeing the world, it's just really incredibly inspiring and encouraging and exciting. Every time I go to help them load a kiln, I just feel like have these ideas sparking. And it's always a lesson.

KS: That’s so cool.

I start a piece and I don't really know where it's gonna go. My hands lead me, or the clay leads me.

KH: There's a fair amount of inspiration in the kilns that we're firing. So Catherine and Warren tumble stack, which means —

KS: I don’t know what that means.

KH: I’m trying to break it down in a way it will be understandable. So, there are shelves in the kiln that you put your work on, that are supported by bricks, so that there's this interior of furniture that you put your pots on. And the space between their kiln shelves always stays the same. So you stack work on top of each other, then you're really mindful of how the negative and positive spaces are going to impact the surface as the flame moves through those.

But it means that you get these really nice guidelines of like, okay, whatever I make has to fit within nine inches, you know, like, that's the height, or the width, or there's a certain space within this furniture, and this wall of the kiln that needs to be filled. Having those restrictions is really exciting. It makes you see and think things differently. Rather than being like, oh, I can go in any direction. It's nice to have that parameter to kind of rein you in. Exciting things happen when I try to work within those restrictions. 

KS: Yeah, it's interesting how I feel like whenever I think of art and the way artists describe their work, they talk about like, oh, like limitless bounds, and you're finding inspiration in the fixed-ness of the process that allows a clear direction for you to take, even if you don't know what it is when you get started.

KH: Yeah. 

KS: You talk about nature, just for people who don't know you personally, could you talk a little about your environment? Like when you say you're going for walks like, what is that? Are you, you know, in the Arizona desert? Are you in the abyss of Antarctica? What does your nature look like?

KH:  Yeah, I'm just outside of Sperryville, Virginia, and I back on to the Shenandoah National Park. So there is about 200,000 acres of trees right outside my back door. I can see one other neighbor, who's about a quarter mile away. 

But the daily walks are in the woods along a really beautiful river with just some incredible views along the way of some other mountains. 

KS: Yeah. 

KH: And I rarely see other people, which is sometimes a gift, sometimes not.

KS: Could you expand on that? Like, in what ways is it a gift? In what ways is it….not a gift? I was gonna say “a curse,” but that feels too strong.

KH: I am an extroverted introvert. So I kind of get filled up on my social needs in a very small window. Like I talk to you, I'm good. I don’t need to talk to anyone else for about a week. 

KS: Laughs

KH: And that's great. I think that's why I can be out here because I don't need a whole lot of people. But then there are also times where it's like, Oh, I'd really like to see a friend. And that's not always easy.

There are more cows than people here. And the people that are here, we're all kindred spirits. There's a reason that we land here. But you know, it's like when you live in a really sparsely populated area. It can be lonely at times.

KS: Yeah I hear that. I hear that not as someone who has ever lived in a sparsely populated area, but even just the jump from New York City to Pittsburgh, which like, Pittsburgh is obviously a huge city compared to Sperryville, but you feel, you feel the difference.

And it's something that you choose, but also is an everyday thing.

KH: Mmmhmm. 

KS: You spoke a little bit about the kiln. Could you talk a bit more about the community of the kiln, like what the process is from clay to final work? I know you've worked with wood fired kilns and also, is it gas-fired? I don't know the terminology for it, but just kind of how the process forms informs your art and other limits that you find inspiration from?

KH:  Sure. I really love a Japanese-style anagama wood kiln. If I could only make one artwork, like that would be it. I am not in the place yet to build my own kiln. So right now, I pack pots and will go wherever I can go.

Anagama really has my heart. I'm going to talk about Catherine and Warren’s because I fire in a couple different kilns, but their kiln is really my favorite kiln. 

KS: And just like for context, how far is Catherine and Warren’s from you, are they in town? Or is this like a weekend trip? Or?

KH: They're about 45 minutes away. Everything's 45 minutes away.

KS: Sure, okay. Yeah.

KH: Yeah, so their kiln is about 200 cubic feet. It looks like a whale, like that kind of shape. So imagine, the mouth is in the front, right, and then at the back where the tail would be is the chimney. We walk in the front. And it's big enough for us to be inside of this kiln. It takes about three days solidly for us to load it.

KS: Wow.

KH: The way it works is that you put in the pots from the back forward, and then when you go to fire, the flame is in the front. And the beauty of an anagama is the inefficiency.

So the flame is drawn from the front, through the body of the kiln and through all of your work, out up the chimney. It's that path of the flame that causes the beautiful surface. The ash carried by the flame is distributed onto the surface of the pots. And because of the way we're tumble stacking, we're very mindfully thinking about positive and negative spaces and flame flow. 

We're firing to about 2350 Fahrenheit, more or less. When you have a high temperature flame, it moves through the pots kind of like a river moves around rocks in the water. Like that's the best visualization that I can give you. And so if we think about that movement over the surface of the pots, as we're making, and then also as we're loading, the flame and ash really become the collaborators. You know, we put in these pots, just raw clay, there's no glaze on them, and then with time and ash and heat, and how we load it, brings on all of those beautiful colorations and patterns.

So it takes three days to load. And then I want to say it's like 50 hours or so to fire, not not quite three days. And we use about five or six cords of wood. [A cord is an equivalent volume of 4 feet x 4 feet x 8 feet. For reference, I’m using five cords in my wood stove to heat my entire house for winter.]

KS: Wow.

KH:  We're only using wood and so it means that there's a crew of people there to help fire this kiln because someone has to be putting wood in at specific increments around the clock. You can't just set it and walk away. So it’s this really wonderful ritual, it almost feels like a religious experience in some ways. You come together with this mindful intention and purpose, and you're gathered around the fire. We have lovely meals and lovely conversation, but the focus is the fire. We listen to the sound of the flame and the fire, and then also look, and that's how we have a sense of when we need to put more wood in there.

So this is a very traditional way of firing. There are other people that have fancy gadgets and thermometers that will tell you like when you need to stoke, because of the oxygen and the flame, etc etc. That's like, you know, if that works for you and you get pots that you want, good on ya.

But I really like the sensory experience where it's about sight and sound to let you know where you need to be. 

KS: It sounds truly fascinating. I would love to be there for one without having any of my art inside, but I can't even picture like, like it's just open and there's just you can just see inside? or like, is there like a door? What is that like? 

KH: Yes. So and actually, if you want me to, I can send you a couple photos of that. 

KS: Oh my gosh, I would love to see it.

KH: So there's an archway in the front that is door. It probably hits me, mid forehead, but what we do is we brick it up, and then there's a hole that's, I don't know, maybe 18 inches by a foot, and it's got a steel door that hangs in front of that. So it is closed, and then when we go to stoke it, we move that in that piece of metal, and you can see inside again.

Part of it too, is that we're trying to reduce the oxygen in the flame. I mean, part of the reason I get so excited about this is that it is still chemistry, so that art conservation piece of me is still getting fed by all of this.

You want to kind of starve the flame of oxygen so that it's pulling oxygen molecules out of the clay. And that's part of the transformation that you're seeing on the surface too. It's called reduction.

It's all about cycles and paying attention.

KS: Oh my gosh, that's so cool. And I can't even imagine like the thrill of after 50 hours, like seeing the path of the flame on your work. And on, you know, the work of the other artists that you've stacked with to kind of see what happened.

KH: It typically takes just over a week for it to cool, and then we unload it. You know, and like, in some way that feels like Christmas morning with that expectation and excitement and having no idea what's going to be there.

Sometimes you get absolute magic, and then there's other times where it's like, oh, that did not work. So I mean, there's a fairly high failure rate. It's a lot of stress to put clay through. And so things break, or crack, or the surface will bubble, you know, or it just didn't work. Either there wasn't enough ash, or it didn't reduce in that spot.

It's not a guaranteed thing that when you put it in there that every single pot is going to come out beautiful. 

KS: Oh my gosh.

KH: It’s part of the draw of like, oh, what did I get? And, that didn't work. And if it didn't, it’s like, I love that idea. But let me revisit it because it didn't work this time. 

When I’ve worked with students, it’s always about expectation management. Like any form of ceramics, there's failure, but wood firing, very much so. But it's like, you know, fall in love with an idea, and the form, but don't fall in love with the piece. 

KS: Because you might have to keep trying.

KH: Yeah, it may not work. It's a good lesson in detachment. 

KS: Wow. I'm struggling to even wrap my head around that. I think it would kill me. Like wow.

KH: Like, yeah, and sometimes you'll get people come to my show, and they'll come in and be like, Oh, do you ever give discounts? But I'm just like, No! I don’t. One, you would never walk into Target and negotiate on a price, which is really insulting. But two, it's like, I lost a whole bunch to get to this point. That’s partly built in to how I price things. 

KS: People are so funny. That’s insane to me. Oh my gosh. Ugh! We haven't talked about your work with flowers at all. In what ways does your work with flowers inform your work with clay? And vice versa? Do you want to speak to that? You don't have to if you don't want to.

KH: Yeah, you know, I feel like flowers are also my artwork, as you know, it's drawing, effectively, in a different form. And it's a really nice counterpart to the clay because it's immediate, you can start and finish something right away and appreciate it. Whereas the clay is really slow. It takes a lot of time to go from something made to being finished and fired because we don't fire all that often.

So I feel like the flowers and clay together are what satisfy me creatively. It would be harder for me not to be doing something that had more immediate gratification.

KS: Right.

KH: Flowers have such unique personalities. It's been interesting to get to know more plants and kind of have a sense of like, Oh, I'm looking for a vessel that would honor this shape or form or would hold things a certain way. And so it's been really nice to see that relationship and kind of get a sense of like what I feel like the flower is saying it wants.

KS: It's so interesting to think about flowers from their shape. Whereas I feel like the way that I've always known flowers is like, people talk about the colors, or the time, the seasons that they're in bloom. And it's interesting to think about it from that perspective. I feel so spoiled, like you came to our apartment with your vase that you made, and your cut flowers from your garden, you're like, Oh, yeah this is for you! I was like, Oh, my God, like, who is this? How do I become her?

Really, truly incredible. Like to see your work and Jen’s work together. It's a gift, really, I don't really have any other words for it. 

KH: Thank you. 

KS: It’s not the same as you know, the Trader Joe's cut carnations I have on my table.

KH: I really, I feel like for clay or flowers, it's like, if it makes you happy, whatever it is, then that's wonderful. And I also know that for us, when we're approaching flowers, it really is like the tenants of artwork, of color, line, form, composition, texture, you know. We may not be consciously running down that checklist anymore, because we've done it for so many years. But we’re looking at it as like, as a sculpture effectively, even though it happens to be living.

KS: Yeah, really, really cool. Um, and then the last question I had was about how, like, obviously, I feel I'll be transparent. We received your artwork as a gift for our wedding this year. And it was, by far one of my favorite gifts. And it was funny, like for the first like month or so we were so scared to use anything. We packed everything away so carefully, but we like didn't trust our guests to be around even the candle holders. And we didn't want to put food in the bowl. We're like, It's too beautiful! It's too nice! And then being able to visit you in your home, it was unbelievable. It was like being in a living studio, where you were like, here's a plate for your eggs and like this, this plate? like this plate??, like no, it's too nice! And so I'm curious to hear about your relationship with, you know, art and sculpture and also utility. We talked earlier about the mugs. But even if it's something you're making for yourself or giving us a gift, I feel really privileged that we're able to use your art in our home, but I still wince if we ever put it in the dishwasher.

KH: It's okay, you can hand wash and that's fine. Unless you want to use the dishwasher, then it is safe. 

Sculpture has my heart. But I also feel like it's really important to have beauty in your everyday. And so I do make functional work. I mean, it actually really makes me happy to make it for our personal use, or for someone that I know and love. I find that really gratifying.

Making a generic thing, like, for someone I don't know, I don't find it as exciting. But the relationships that we have with ceramics, I find it so gratifying. I mean, it's a ritual, right? Every morning, you wake up and you're like, I'm going to go have tea or coffee and you reach for a mug, or some kind of vessel. Usually, it's the same one. You form a relationship with this vessel. And then it's such a sensual relationship, like you were holding it and you were touching it with your mouth. So it's how the lip of that cup meet your mouth, like you're kissing it.

Sculpture has my heart. But I also feel like it's really important to have beauty in your everyday.

You're putting your food on plates, and so part of the experience of eating should be pleasure, and you want the aesthetic elevation of how food meets your dishes. I mean, I love to cook is the other piece of it. I find the relationship between us as users, but then also food and how we're consuming it, paired with the clay, really interesting, and I think I should say that's part of my inspiration as well and I didn't even think about that when you asked me earlier.

But you know, I have pots everywhere in my house as you have seen. In fact, I was like there's not a room, including the bathrooms, does not have clay in it.

I think even the pieces that are purely sculptural, I still have them out because I want to look at them and it brings this visual interest. That becomes a relationship to something that you rest your eyes on everyday when you're at home.

KS: Yeah.

KH:  I think the intentionality of making that goes into my work, because it is such a slow process, also becomes the intentionality of living with an object, it’s a very mindful practice. And it's like, I edit a lot, you know, like I want it to bring me joy as that very popular book says.

You know, it's just like, I really want to be surrounded by something that is beautiful. And if it's not, then it goes. I have a fair amount of my own work. But then I also have a fair amount of work from people that I that I know and admire, or I fire with. And I really love having their work on the table as well, because it's almost like I'm sharing a meal with a friend.

KS: Aw. Yeah. 

KH: Clay is about relationships, and is it a relationship between you and the object, and it's also a relationship between you and the maker.

KS: I love that so much. I'm even thinking about, you know, obviously, you love to cook, I love to cook too. And I'm thinking about the smaller ramekins and the spoons that you had given us. We had dinner with our neighbors this week, and put sour cream in them to go along with the meal. And it's just like, it makes the meal look more beautiful. But it's also a testament to the making of the food too, like, this was done with thought, and for sharing as well. And so I like the way that your are really complements that. 

My idea of, you know, sharing, is in the food that I'm making. And it's really a privilege to be able to share it with your art and sour cream. 

KH: Thank you. 

Yeah, and, you know, I think there's a fair number of us, like, this is why you get into clay. You know, there are people that that are thinking just that thought. And it's so fascinating to me as like how many different directions you can take that.

At some point, I probably will go back to painting and doing some other things. But right now, it's just like, Oh, I really do like the utility and the tactility of clay, you know, and the ongoing relationship of just like, I make it and then it still pleases me in this part of my everyday life. 

KS: Yeah. 

KH: And I hope, you know, people that have my work are also having that same experience.

KS:  Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that came up in our conversation? Or that's on your mind that you wanted to share?

KH: I don’t think so. Probably in the middle of the night tonight something will come up!